"Prop 8 - The Musical" starring Jack Black, John C. Reilly, and many more...

ibspify said:

-MaxPercy

If your issue is merely the with the use of the word marriage due to it's religious connotation, Then you must also realize that marriage has a meaning outside of religion, for example, a Catholic marriage ceremony (of which I was a part of 2 this past summer) is significantly different, and carries with it a different set of rules then

ibspify said:

-MaxPercy

If your issue is merely the with the use of the word marriage due to it's religious connotation, Then you must also realize that marriage has a meaning outside of religion, for example, a Catholic marriage ceremony (of which I was a part of 2 this past summer) is significantly different, and carries with it a different set of rules then that of a Buddhist Marriage ceremony, or even that of a secular non-religious ceremony. So already we can see that this country carries with it many definitions of the word marriage, as a Buddhist marriage is not the same as a Catholic Marriage, or Secular Marriage, in fact the only thing all of these marriage have in common is the rights that the state grants them once they have filed their paper work for the civil marriage

CN: "But, if it is romantic, then its a sin."

So "perverted" sex is not the issue; you're saying that romantic love itself is a sin. Is that what the Bible says, what your God says?

Not to sound like a broken record, but any God who says that one man showing a deep love for another is a sin is a God who I show no love for. I reject that God and happily accept ... more >

CN: "But, if it is romantic, then its a sin."

So "perverted" sex is not the issue; you're saying that romantic love itself is a sin. Is that what the Bible says, what your God says?

Not to sound like a broken record, but any God who says that one man showing a deep love for another is a sin is a God who I show no love for. I reject that God and happily accept any consequences of that action. That's not a God of love.

"And I cannot leave the bible aside." It was a figure of speech. I'm not actually asking you to reject your Bible.

"Like describing God as that white beared man in the sky, even tho christian never say that." That's another figure of speech. I know that Christians don't literally believe God is a white bearded man in the sky, but they seem to believe that God is a physical, literal being who is watching their actions and judging them individually. That's something I find ridiculous.

Ibspify

I have the only ground to stand on that anyone will ever need. God's word. You simplify what i say like a child, this is a tactic of christian bashers. Like describing God as that white beared man in the sky, even tho christian never say that.

It is egotistical condecension, and really has nothing to do with reality. The bible says more then what you ... more >

Ibspify

I have the only ground to stand on that anyone will ever need. God's word. You simplify what i say like a child, this is a tactic of christian bashers. Like describing God as that white beared man in the sky, even tho christian never say that.

It is egotistical condecension, and really has nothing to do with reality. The bible says more then what you stated christians say it does about homosexuality. Its not about" the bible says homosexuals are bad". Simplifying like a child, and then tearing down that straw man. And I don't know if it comes from insecurity or ignorance, or both.

gayandmarried

Putting ha ha ha after everything shows insecurity. Just a heads up for you. Are you not a faggot? A faggot is a homosexual, so this must make you one. Perhaps you are straight pretending to be gay.


Since when does the government decide what a religion is? They cannot even decide what a human is half the time. Taxing or not taxing does not mea... more >

gayandmarried

Putting ha ha ha after everything shows insecurity. Just a heads up for you. Are you not a faggot? A faggot is a homosexual, so this must make you one. Perhaps you are straight pretending to be gay.


Since when does the government decide what a religion is? They cannot even decide what a human is half the time. Taxing or not taxing does not mean atheism is any less of a religion. Get real.

Atheism is a religion because it falls into what a religion does. I know this hurts your free from religion schtick, but its still a religion. All you have to do is look at the definitions I gave, to see this clearly. But you don't seem to get things too clearly tho. Like the bible.

You can't get deep, you start sounding like a valley girl, very ignorant and blonde. Are you retarded? you seem almost immature, or is it flamboyant behavior?

gayandmarried

No one is forced to obey God. But you ignore him and his salvation at your own selfish, and egotistical doom.

We are all heading for hell. Jesus is the only way to avoid this. There is no other way, no matter how much you wish there was. When someone is introduced to christianity, they learn the truth of the world and their fate. They then have ... more >

gayandmarried

No one is forced to obey God. But you ignore him and his salvation at your own selfish, and egotistical doom.

We are all heading for hell. Jesus is the only way to avoid this. There is no other way, no matter how much you wish there was. When someone is introduced to christianity, they learn the truth of the world and their fate. They then have a chance to avoid hell and be freed of their sin.

Not accpeting Christ won't change anything, You are already going to hell before this. It is your sin that damns you. In short, it would be competely and utterly ignorant to not accpet the free gift of eternal salvation and life, to avoid hell and to find God's path for your life. But you certainly can if you wish.


You never lose your salvation. So backsliding, or turning from God, will not undo your salvation. Once saved, always saved. Has nothing to do with your life choices, but you will lose blessings, and treasures in heaven. Plus, you might be chastised by God.


You know nothing about salvation, Salvation does not require a person to follow the bible for life. You do that because you want to, not to keep your salvation. Salvation is not of works, it is of grace. Good works, going to church, praying, whatever, will not save you or keep your salvation. Has nothing to do with it.

And it sounds stupid because you are saying stupid things that are not biblical. And then saying they are true, when they clearly are not.


I already did prove it, and you false. you might want to get re-involved to actually learn the bible, and not assume it. 20 years, and you know nothing about salvation, and its nature. What were you, catholic?


Nothing is supposed to get you into any church.


Give me, and the bible a break.

gayandmarried

Saying you have facts, and having actual facts are not the same thing. But yes, I do enjoy showing you what God's will is. And I might agree that some are enlightened here, gettting an understanding of God and his will for man. What is ridiculous tho, is homosexuality.


The bottom line is, I follow the law if it does not become immoral. For inst... more >

gayandmarried

Saying you have facts, and having actual facts are not the same thing. But yes, I do enjoy showing you what God's will is. And I might agree that some are enlightened here, gettting an understanding of God and his will for man. What is ridiculous tho, is homosexuality.


The bottom line is, I follow the law if it does not become immoral. For instance, If I was a doctor, and they tried to make me perform an abortion, which they are trying to have laws that do this, then i would not perform it, no matter the law. I would not perform forced murder for the government hoods.

What the bible says is what God says. It does not matter what you believe, You are not God. Trying to paint me into a corner does not change this fact. Truth is not a democracy. Therefore it means nothing that you reject God's word. But this is what fools do.


Morals have been used from the beggining of this country to set up laws. What do you think the founding father's based their morality, and the countries founding principles on? If i were to have zero chance of using moral arguments, then thats a sign of the times, not of the traditions of this country. Besides, When homosexual marriages come up, the people always vote it down. Simple.

And you are indeed welcome, that I can help to correct your ignorance and God hating ways.

gobo

In Mass it was judicial activism that forced homosexual marriage through. The same thing happened in Conn. Had nothing to do with the people. Infact, thats the only way it does get through, is if the people's will is ignored, and judges take the laws into their own hands ,instead of upholding laws.

And I cannot leave the bible aside. Why would I?


Homosex... more >

gobo

In Mass it was judicial activism that forced homosexual marriage through. The same thing happened in Conn. Had nothing to do with the people. Infact, thats the only way it does get through, is if the people's will is ignored, and judges take the laws into their own hands ,instead of upholding laws.

And I cannot leave the bible aside. Why would I?


Homosexuality in the mind and heart is a sin also. Murder starts in the heart. All sin does. And if you are loving someone who is of the same sex, but it is not romantic, then its not homosexuality. But, if it is romantic, then its a sin.

Ibspify

No need for a dumbed down version. Because God knowing what is going to happen before hand, does not mean he makes it happen. So yes you have a choice. God is never wrong, because he know what you will do. How does this change your choice to do what you will? It doesn not change your choice, you choose your path, God already knows what your choice wil... more >

Ibspify

No need for a dumbed down version. Because God knowing what is going to happen before hand, does not mean he makes it happen. So yes you have a choice. God is never wrong, because he know what you will do. How does this change your choice to do what you will? It doesn not change your choice, you choose your path, God already knows what your choice will be. You however do not know your future.

The choice has not been determined already. It has been seen already. You the human make the determination, not God. Its not an illusion at all. Knowing something before hand does not mean you have made it happen. That's kinda like saying that a psychic made the choice for you if they predicted what you would do in the future.


All options are there. If we did not have free will, then we would not rebel against God, like you do for instance, or sodomites do. He would have made us with no choice in the matter, but to follow him.

ibspify

Marriage has nothing to do with any definition the christians put on it. I don't know what reliable record you are using, but the first recorded marriage is between Adam and Eve around 6000 years ago. God made marriage for a man and a woman, one of the main reasons was to populate the earth, to be fruitful and multiply. This has not changed, since God... more >

ibspify

Marriage has nothing to do with any definition the christians put on it. I don't know what reliable record you are using, but the first recorded marriage is between Adam and Eve around 6000 years ago. God made marriage for a man and a woman, one of the main reasons was to populate the earth, to be fruitful and multiply. This has not changed, since God does not change. Any perversion of marriage after the fact is man made and not actual marriage.

The prupose of marriage was to join a man and a woman into a family unit, who then would have children, all for the glory of God. Jesus said
"But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female".
Mark 10:6. And, Matthew 19:4-5, And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?


Since The God of israel created marriage, and all things. And since christians worship him. I would say that religion got involved from the beggining. Altho not, false, or man made religion, but true christianity, or before Christ came, the jewish people.


How can the nature of marriage be changed by man? God already told us what marriage was, I don't need a church to tell me, I have God's own word. No pope, pastor, or priest has to tell me about marriage, I have God. And I am ofcourse not interested in man made perversions of marriage.

I would assume that God loved Adam and Eve, and Adam loved Eve, and she loved Adam. Infact that is probably why we fell into sin. Adam loving Eve and letting her tempt him into eating the fruit. This ofcourse shows that not all love is good.


The bible says that a husband is to treat his wife like Christ treats the church. So any abuse by a husband to the wife is not biblical. Women are indeed helpers of men, and Men are indeed the head of the household. But women are not to be abused and be littled. Different roles, both equal under Christ.


The tradition you mention is completely man made. God as i have shown made traditional marriage, and said for a husband to treat his wife with respect and love. Traditional marriage tho has not changed. From Adam to Now, marriage has been for a man and a woman.


I would imagine that gay marriage was not unkown, since sodomites are not unknown in history. Like solomon said, no new thing under the son. Sinful behavior, and perversions are nothing new.

-MaxPercy

If your issue is merely the with the use of the word marriage due to it's religious connotation, Then you must also realize that marriage has a meaning outside of religion, for example, a Catholic marriage ceremony (of which I was a part of 2 this past summer) is significantly different, and carries with it a different set of rules then that of a Bu... more >

-MaxPercy

If your issue is merely the with the use of the word marriage due to it's religious connotation, Then you must also realize that marriage has a meaning outside of religion, for example, a Catholic marriage ceremony (of which I was a part of 2 this past summer) is significantly different, and carries with it a different set of rules then that of a Buddhist Marriage ceremony, or even that of a secular non-religious ceremony. So already we can see that this country carries with it many definitions of the word marriage, as a Buddhist marriage is not the same as a Catholic Marriage, or Secular Marriage, in fact the only thing all of these marriage have in common is the rights that the state grants them once they have filed their paper work for the civil marriage

I've said it before but the ironic thing about Prop 8, is it does nothing to stop homosexuals from getting married, I had been witness to 2 homosexual wedding ceremonies before gay marriage was recognized by the state. the only thing that prop 8 does, is prevent homosexual couples from registering their marriage with the state to receive marriage benefits.

ibspify said:
The bubble analogy only extends so far as to everyones own personal feelings of god,... arguments over religion are in the end pointless because religions operate on faith and faith is always unique to each individual and can't be accurately described to another. aside from maters of faith you are correct that the bubble analogy holds no weight

ibspify said:
The bubble analogy only extends so far as to everyones own personal feelings of god,... arguments over religion are in the end pointless because religions operate on faith and faith is always unique to each individual and can't be accurately described to another. aside from maters of faith you are correct that the bubble analogy holds no weight as other maters can actually be examined. the opt for nonengagement is solely on a religious stance,

I think you are conflating faith with feelings here. I agree that it is difficult to engage in this dialogue, but not impossible. But as faith concerns the human person I would suggest that ti is not unique to each person, but that there are observable, describable structures to it. I always find it interesting when people say "I'm spiritual, but not religious" To declare oneself spiritual is nor more revelatory than declaring oneself to be psychological, emotional or bioilogical, it is a capacity of being human. I do agree that faith necessarily entails experience of God.

"Whether that means there should or should not be homosexual marriage is an open question to me. But to not acknowledge reality is not helpful."

let me pose this question to you, and i hope that you honestly think about before answering. If the state issued contract was not called marriage, if everybody when they got their unions sanctioned by the state instead of signing a marriage contract, signed a Civil Union contract, would you be opposed to homosexuals entering into that same contract? What I'm asking, is; Is the real issue here the word "marriage"?

yes

gayandmarried said:

maxpercy00 said: "I do not think that this is fear per se, so much as it is trying to discern the principle. Is "no damage" the best test for enacting legislation, or is "what is best" the best test for legislation, or some other principle?"

gayandmarried said:

maxpercy00 said: "I do not think that this is fear per se, so much as it is trying to discern the principle. Is "no damage" the best test for enacting legislation, or is "what is best" the best test for legislation, or some other principle?"

ChristopherN79 said:

Yes, our bodies do infact decompose. I do not care what happens to my body after death. I am no longer in it. My soul is in heaven, and I have no concern about my body.

ChristopherN79 said:

Yes, our bodies do infact decompose. I do not care what happens to my body after death. I am no longer in it. My soul is in heaven, and I have no concern about my body.

ibspify said: "Unfortunately CN79 is beyond reason, so there is nothing that we can say to enlighten him, however, his posts do a very good job of showing how the prop 8 group really have no ground to stand on other then "God says homosexuals are bad" which we all know that in this society is not a valid reason to pass a law"

He's certainly giving us good pra... more >

ibspify said: "Unfortunately CN79 is beyond reason, so there is nothing that we can say to enlighten him, however, his posts do a very good job of showing how the prop 8 group really have no ground to stand on other then "God says homosexuals are bad" which we all know that in this society is not a valid reason to pass a law"

He's certainly giving us good practice against the REAL threats out there; the people who believe and follow the laws of the government.

When Jack Black looks at Alison Janey when he's talking about lesbians, her face is priceless. Check out my web series The Lampshade too, give it a shot:

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/ccd88cbda3/episode-9-the-lampshade-gets-competitive-from-thelampshade

When Jack Black looks at Alison Janey when he's talking about lesbians, her face is priceless. Check out my web series The Lampshade too, give it a shot:

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/ccd88cbda3/episode-9-the-lampshade-gets-competitive-from-thelampshade

-GayandMarried
"Again, thanks ChristopherN79 for bringing up topics for us to answer. Thanks for bringing ignorance too, so we can enlighten both you and anyone else that comes here to this site to read comments."

Unfortunately CN79 is beyond reason, so there is nothing that we can say to enlighten him, however, his posts do a very good job of showing how the ... more >

-GayandMarried
"Again, thanks ChristopherN79 for bringing up topics for us to answer. Thanks for bringing ignorance too, so we can enlighten both you and anyone else that comes here to this site to read comments."

Unfortunately CN79 is beyond reason, so there is nothing that we can say to enlighten him, however, his posts do a very good job of showing how the prop 8 group really have no ground to stand on other then "God says homosexuals are bad" which we all know that in this society is not a valid reason to pass a law